|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
396
   |
Posted - 2015.06.03 20:25:06 -
[1] - Quote
Colonel Tosh wrote:Hi,
I wanted to start a discussion to see if people are remotely interested in something that bugs me whenever I try to gank in certain areas of nullsec. As you may know, there are a lot of "alleged" bots in these regions that operate by pre-aligning to towers and then wait for local to get new unknown people in.
This bugs me, because it essentially gives people free intel with no effort, thus reducing any risk they might have while out in the open. To this end, I am curious what would happen if I suggest the following solution:
Once someone jumps into a system, he/she does not show up on the local chat untill five seconds after breaking his/her gatecloak.
This would give PVP groups a few more precious moments to potentially catch people, instead of arriving to a place where the guy per definition has warped off.
Let me know what you think?
Edits:
Points to consider:
How long would a delay have to be to be balanced amongst most ships? Would we balance it based on shiptypes or just a flat number?
How else would you recommend people defend themselves against interceptor ganks? If they are pre-aligned and watching local carefully enough to be gone inside 10 seconds, sounds like they're doing it right. We can certainly discuss tweaks that make the funding of multiple neutral scout alts even more of a requirement to succeed than they are already, or maybe if you aren't happy with your current ratting Ishtar kill count you should 1) get better at ganking and/or find a more creative way to go about it or 2) go fight things that shoot back. There are many and they would welcome the content.
You don't have a right to effortless killmails anymore than they have a right to risk free ISK. People who have spent enormous time and effort building empires in null should derive SOME advantage from those efforts. And since you think everyone who does PvE to fund their PvP combat is a worthless "carebear" I'll ask...how do you make YOUR money? Unless you sell PLEX or scam/station trade on a character that never undocks, you're a carebear too. You're no better than anyone else. Get better at ganking. Null and lowsec are already ridiculously empty because of how difficult it is to operate there outside of a major organization. Last thing this game needs is more buffs to non-consensual pvp.
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
398
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:12:08 -
[2] - Quote
Colonel Tosh wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Last thing this game needs is more buffs to non-consensual pvp.
For you especially: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Golden_Rules
Quote:You consent to PvP when you click "undock". As for how I make money? I am a wormhole player on a few characters, with which I do sites in space that has no pre-given intel. It's rare to get ganked because I am a proactive player and I actually put some basic effort into EVE. Which is the whole point of this discussion. If you're an active player you should not have any issues with this. The only people that complain are the guys that get more risk to their AFK alts that rat in silence with no effort.
A non-proactive player in an "AFK-tar" is not going to be checking local every 5 seconds and should be easy to catch. It seems like you are upset that you don't automatically get to gank people who are actually paying close attention. I check null killboards and see lots of dead ratting ships; if you suspect bots you should report them to CCP. Once again I really don't understand your point.
Saying that you consent to pvp when you undock does not engage with the reality of the situation which is - due to the fundamental differences between pvp and pve, pve ships are worthless in a fight. If you buff the aggressor's position such that pve outside of highsec becomes a unprofitable endeavor, that will have and already has had consequences, a point made here by numerous responders.
"I should be able to catch ratting Ishtars in my interceptor 100% of the time regardless of how prepared/attentive they are because this is a PvP game" is a short sighted proposition with negative long term effects both known and unknown, foremost among the latter being that I will have to read a dozen more threads about nullbear alts making too much ISK doing PvE in highsec.
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
401
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 21:56:14 -
[3] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:Colonel Tosh wrote:
As for how I make money?
I am a wormhole player on a few characters, with which I do sites in space that has no pre-given intel. It's rare to get ganked because I am a proactive player and I actually put some basic effort into EVE. Which is the whole point of this discussion. If you're an active player you should not have any issues with this. The only people that complain are the guys that get more risk to their AFK alts that rat in silence with no effort.
Do you not feel somewhat ironic/bigoted, that you are a wh player supporting multiple accounts, and you are fixated on lone ratters in belts and anomalies? I mean, if the isk was so HUGE, it sounds like you'd be the guy that was doing it. As for botters: Report a suspected bot and I guarantee it will be investigated. As for afk ratting. I don't think it happens as much as you think.
Nah man, his risk/reward is fine. It's that OTHER guy's that's broken. So what if he watches local like a hawk 100% of the time and-áaligns to station any time there's a spike, he DESERVES to die because he is a filthy afk ratting nullbear and not a right honorable sleeper loot farming wormholer. If I can't catch him, he must be a bot.
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
401
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 21:57:34 -
[4] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:
Delays to entering local only benefits the hunter.
False. Good camps instantly bubble up when local goes +1 to stop gate to gate warpers on the edge. This would manifestly nerf gate camps who can't put eyes in every adjacent system. It severely nerfs smartbomb camps too. What this does is punish the lazy, rewards the active. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sounds like it just rewards people for buying more alts. I think there's a phrase for that...if only I could recall. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
402
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 19:23:08 -
[5] - Quote
I've enjoyed watching people complain about the fact that they can't catch someone who is watching local and reacts within 5 seconds in one sentence, and in the next make some snide remark about AFK farmers.
You do understand those two statements are mutually exclusive right? If your target is AFK or even distracted, he's going to die.
Furthermore, zkillboard is LITTERED with killmails of ratting Ishtars and more expensive PvE ships ganked in null. There was just a post about a guy named Sa Matra that runs around alliance null with a couple of multiboxed maledictions murdering Ishtars with EM light missiles.
It is already extremely difficult to PvE solo or in small groups in dangerous space without losing ships at a sufficient rate to make grinding in highsec a more profitable endeavor.
If you want people to live and fight in null, they have to be able to make ISK there, or they have to run a farming alt in faction warfare or highsec incursions. Making it so that running a secondary farming alt in highsec or lowsec is REQUIRED to live in null, is idiotic. It's terrible for the game.
The number of null ratters on zkillboard every day and the prevalence of highsec farming alts amongst null dwellers proves that further nerfs to null PvE are not required. If you would think about the bigger picture beyond your desire for ganks on targets with limited capacity to fight back, you would see the negative consequences of making null unprofitable for alliance line members.
If you make it impossible for your prey to evade you, they will leave and you will have no prey. Less people in null, less people for you to shoot at. And please don't talk about setting traps - no one can sit for hours every day with a bait ship in an anomaly with friends sitting around waiting to login, undock, or decloak in PvP on the off chance a gang they're capable of engaging wanders through.
Traps do happen but they require far more coordination than running around with a ceptor blob looking for PvE ships to gank, and frankly nobody gets all that excited about setting traps for 30M ISK frigates that run around at 5000 m/s.
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
402
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 22:41:06 -
[6] - Quote
Colonel Tosh wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:I've enjoyed watching people complain about the fact that they can't catch someone who Is watching local and reacts within 5 seconds in one sentence, and in the next make some snide remark about AFK farmers. So let me ask you a simple question. Do you believe it is balanced in the most general sense of the word to be able to see a player entering your system without visual / dscan confirmation, before that player him/herself has even loaded grid?
Yes. It works the same way for everyone, and the time it takes to load is both negligible and dependent on your hardware setup.
If someone is 100% at their keyboard and reacts as soon as you hit local they should be able to evade the initial tackle attempt. You're dodging all of my points, foremost being that if you make it almost a foregone conclusion for a ceptor to tackle someone ratting in an anom no matter how alert that player is, you will have less people making ISK in null, and thus less content for you and everyone else.
Ratting ships die constantly, a simple glance at zkill confirms this.
The notion that a ratting Ishtar that's probably passive shield or cap rigged can inside 15 seconds refit to something viable for PvP is questionable...to expect him to go up against a blob or even a small gang of unknown size and composition in a HAC that is not even good for solo'ing; that defies the limits of absurdity.
And to say that wormholers PvE in PvP fits is bullshit. I spent enough time browsing fits on the wormhole subforum to know that there are very specific setups for running sleeper sites...you can always refit with some PvP modules but it will hardly be an optimal setup.
Crosi already pretty much trashed your argument. You want a guaranteed ability to gank null PvE ships and that would be terrible for the game. You should want MORE people in null and WH space, not less. That means that people who don't have highsec incursion alts should be able to make ISK where they live rather than facing a mechanical risk v reward balance that makes a steady income impossible.
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
407
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 21:32:36 -
[7] - Quote
Colonel Tosh wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote: A long but effort filled response.
I think you are misunderstanding the idea that increased risk is not being the same as guaranteed tackle. Yes, my motivation to post started with some after effects of botting Russians, but essentially I've always felt that 0.0 security space offers too much security for "supposedly" the most cutthroat area of EVE.
And my response is that killboards and the prevalence of highsec/FW farming alts amongst nullbears tell a different story. The risk/reward on null ratting is fine; introduce too much risk and you'll just reduce content in null altogether.
I would argue that wormhole space is more cutthroat than null due to precisely the lack of local, and the rewards match that risk. I've never met a poor wormholer.
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
407
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 23:47:22 -
[8] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:On that topic, wormholers always brag about 1 bil/hour. This is clearly too much reward for the risk they take. The nullbears running anoms are lucky to get 80m isk/hour.
This thread is now about how Colonel Tosh and his alt afkalt's income in wormholes is far too high and needs to be nerfed. In his own words, its quite rare that anyone comes to gank him.
#SleeperLivesMatter
|
|
|
| |
|